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Do the Heroes writers watch their own show?
So if the government started rounding up specials in 1961 (you cannot convince me that all those armed men and their guns & ammo were paid for by a university grant) and it all went horribly awry in a mass murder kind of way, why did the program to round up specials not turn into a national witch hunt? Even if every single person at Coyote Sands died (which they didn't because there are at least six survivors we know of), there'd still be some offsite office up the chain of command that would know what happened. If a bunch of teenagers needed to be shot down like that, there's no way the military would just shrug it off and forget about the whole thing for 50 years. No matter how hard the Company tried to hide the existence of specials, the cat was already out of the bag.
And how did the parents react? They sent their kids to Coyote Sands to be cured and never got them back, since the bodies were all buried in unmarked graves there. Didn't the parents find that a little odd? Did they at some point turn to each other and say, "Honey? Didn't we used to have a kid?" What explanation were they given for their sudden lack of child(ren)?
And how did four 16-year-old runaways start the Company and become millionaires? Where did they go after Coyote Sands? If they went home, that's kind of the first place the men with big guns would look for them, not to mention all the awkward explaining Angela would have to do about her sudden lack of little sister.
I call bullshit on the whole thing.
Meanwhile, Nathan has forgiven himself for his past mistakes and therefore believes it's high time Peter forgave him too. Peter really had to scrape the bottom of the well to find some forgiveness he hadn't already used up on Nathan, but is there any doubt he would? It's Peter we're talking about. Nathan did not help his cause with the total lack of a sincere apology, since he seems to have decided that getting Peter Tasered and drugged and carted off for lifelong imprisonment wasn't really that big a deal and that Peter failing to forgive him would just be petty. The fact that every other member of Nathan's family except Peter got a free pass on the drugging and incarceration should certainly be nothing to hold a grudge about. Maybe Nathan should have just shoplifted some socks for Peter instead, because apparently sock theft is how Petrellis say 'I love you.'
Didn't Sylar wait until after he killed Nathan to replace him in the 5YG 'verse? I say this because any deviation from that timeline might mean that Nathan doesn't die. Because if Sylar does kill Nathan? This show will have to kiss my ass like whoa next season to keep me watching. Peter wouldn't be Peter without Nathan to have issues about.
So if the government started rounding up specials in 1961 (you cannot convince me that all those armed men and their guns & ammo were paid for by a university grant) and it all went horribly awry in a mass murder kind of way, why did the program to round up specials not turn into a national witch hunt? Even if every single person at Coyote Sands died (which they didn't because there are at least six survivors we know of), there'd still be some offsite office up the chain of command that would know what happened. If a bunch of teenagers needed to be shot down like that, there's no way the military would just shrug it off and forget about the whole thing for 50 years. No matter how hard the Company tried to hide the existence of specials, the cat was already out of the bag.
And how did the parents react? They sent their kids to Coyote Sands to be cured and never got them back, since the bodies were all buried in unmarked graves there. Didn't the parents find that a little odd? Did they at some point turn to each other and say, "Honey? Didn't we used to have a kid?" What explanation were they given for their sudden lack of child(ren)?
And how did four 16-year-old runaways start the Company and become millionaires? Where did they go after Coyote Sands? If they went home, that's kind of the first place the men with big guns would look for them, not to mention all the awkward explaining Angela would have to do about her sudden lack of little sister.
I call bullshit on the whole thing.
Meanwhile, Nathan has forgiven himself for his past mistakes and therefore believes it's high time Peter forgave him too. Peter really had to scrape the bottom of the well to find some forgiveness he hadn't already used up on Nathan, but is there any doubt he would? It's Peter we're talking about. Nathan did not help his cause with the total lack of a sincere apology, since he seems to have decided that getting Peter Tasered and drugged and carted off for lifelong imprisonment wasn't really that big a deal and that Peter failing to forgive him would just be petty. The fact that every other member of Nathan's family except Peter got a free pass on the drugging and incarceration should certainly be nothing to hold a grudge about. Maybe Nathan should have just shoplifted some socks for Peter instead, because apparently sock theft is how Petrellis say 'I love you.'
Didn't Sylar wait until after he killed Nathan to replace him in the 5YG 'verse? I say this because any deviation from that timeline might mean that Nathan doesn't die. Because if Sylar does kill Nathan? This show will have to kiss my ass like whoa next season to keep me watching. Peter wouldn't be Peter without Nathan to have issues about.
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Date: 2009-04-15 04:45 pm (UTC)From:Weren't the parents in the camp, too and therefore killed during to strange massacre?
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Date: 2009-04-15 11:00 pm (UTC)From:You picked the wrong time to start watching the show for Zach. Sylar just picked up a shapeshifting power, so Sylar is being played by just about everyone except Zach right now.
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Date: 2009-04-16 01:06 pm (UTC)From:Good to know about Sylar's shapeshifting. Well, I can always catch him if I go see the Star Trek movie.
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Date: 2009-04-17 12:25 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2009-04-15 05:16 pm (UTC)From:-I think it was Bob who helped them, wasn't he able to turn things into gold?
Nice rewiew tough you complained a lot. But no worries we all can complain about Heroes if we want to :)
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Date: 2009-04-15 11:30 pm (UTC)From:You're right about Bob's power. I'd forgotten he could turn things into gold. It would still be difficult for a 16-year-old to use that power to his advantage though. It was illegal for the average citizen to hoard gold in the U.S. in 1961, so Bob couldn't just show up at a bank with gold bricks he made himself. Whatever he brought in would also have to be something one would expect to be made from gold (it's not like he could show up with solid gold shoelaces or something), and it would have to be something that wouldn't raise any eyebrows for a 16-year-old to have or the police would be on his butt. He'd also have to move around a lot or whoever he was taking his gold to for money would start wondering where this 16-year-old kid was getting all this gold, and then he'd have police problems again.
Of course, once the gold ban was lifted in the '70s, he could literally make the stuff out of bricks in whatever quantity he wanted, so I have no doubt he's been funding the Company that way for the last 30 years. I just want to know what happened to the runaway teens from the time they left Coyote Sands until the time they became rich and powerful.
Don't worry about Nathan getting killed
Date: 2009-04-16 08:26 pm (UTC)From: (Anonymous)no subject
Date: 2009-04-19 07:57 pm (UTC)From:Answers: apparently not.
but, don't worry about Nathan, Adrian Pasdar wrote this on his youtube account
"Hello everyone. The Nathan I am playing now is about to be involved in a game changer that will alter the direction of the show forever. Fingers crossed folks. I cannot tip my hat or even hint at the what or how. But it's big...
I have struggled of late to find the time to shot and post new material. Between family, work, band rehearsal, and prepping for my sail to Hawaii when we wrap season three, I just have not had the time. But know this: I shall return in full force... soon! I thank you all for your comments and for staying loyal to our show. "
(coming here from heroes_meta)
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Date: 2009-04-19 08:18 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2009-04-19 08:23 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2009-04-20 01:27 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2009-04-20 11:11 am (UTC)From:kidding.
Because of the rumors about Hayden and Milo, and because of the BTE comment about how the outcome of the final battle with Sylar will be something the fan wouldn't like...
we know all the 10 alumni of the first series will be in the last episode, I don't see them killing Matt, Hiro or Ando, Claire can't die, I can't see how Mohinder's death would lead to anyone redemption... so it's HRG, Nathan, Peter or Angela (I really hope not, we need some woman in the show, is getting ridicoulus!)
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Date: 2009-04-20 10:29 pm (UTC)From:I sympathize entirely. They usually kill off my favorite characters too, which explains why Daphne is dead but Maya is still allowed to walk the earth.
I could've seen them killing Matt right up until Baby!Matt entered the picture. Now I guess we know what he'll be doing next volume.
There are a number of characters that I would miss if they were killed off and some others not so much, but if any Petrellis get the boot, I'm not sure I could maintain an interest in the show, especially if it were Peter. Killing Peter would be a deal-breaker for me.
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Date: 2009-04-20 01:28 am (UTC)From:The only person I can think off who would have achieved millionaire status is Bob considering his ability was alchemy, maybe he was just extra giving when he was younger?
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Date: 2009-04-20 02:54 am (UTC)From:But he was still a teenager back then. Who wouldn't be suspicious of a teenager who had gold to sell, especially in enough quantity to support 4 people?
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Date: 2010-02-03 03:41 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2010-02-03 04:37 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2010-02-03 03:33 am (UTC)From:Now that I think Nathan deserves to get off the hook so easily... I really hated him most of 3rd season.
As for how they did it? You assume that Angela and the others were poor to start - there is nothing to say one or more of them didn't start with money. Add to that a boy who can turn anything and everything he touches into gold... and the money isn't hard to make sense of.
As for making others forget? If you were dealing with normal kids no, of course not. But what's to say they didn't find another special that could erase memories ala the Hatian? Or that Charles couldn't make them stop by telling them to alla the Parkman father and son duo?
This was one of my favorite episodes - being such a huge Claire and Angela fan... not to mention probably being one of the only two Angela/Claire shippers on the planet. (What if folks can ship brothers, mother and son and such that grew up together - grandma and granddaughter who didn't meet until granddaughter was almost legal is not implausible by comparison.) =)
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Date: 2010-02-03 05:01 am (UTC)From:Peter was given a free pass - he just chose to bitch slap Nathan across the face with it [snip] and it was Nathan who rescued Peter when Danko went after him.
So did Claire, repeatedly, but Nathan kept rescuing her and setting her free. He saved Peter from being killed by Danko but was ready to turn right around and ship Peter off to the containment facility afterward. He never wavered on wanting Peter in containment.
As for how they did it? You assume that Angela and the others were poor to start - there is nothing to say one or more of them didn't start with money.
Even if they all had trust funds the size of the national deficit, they wouldn't be able to withdraw a cent without someone noticing. The government would be insanely stupid not to watch/freeze those accounts as a finding aid.
Add to that a boy who can turn anything and everything he touches into gold... and the money isn't hard to make sense of.
Except it was illegal for U.S. residents to own large quantities of gold in 1961. Bob would have to be making tiny amounts of gold and selling it all over creation so that no one would get suspicious of the 16-year-old with the neverending gold supply. And Bob would have to keep finding objects to fence that wouldn't raise any eyebrows by being solid gold. He couldn't just show up with solid gold bottle caps or a solid gold Pez dispenser.
But what's to say they didn't find another special that could erase memories ala the Hatian? Or that Charles couldn't make them stop by telling them to alla the Parkman father and son duo?
Who then not only brainwashed the parents, but also every single relative in the family, every teacher and student at the kids' schools, every employee at the families' banks, and the kids' pediatricians, piano teachers, mail carriers, neighbors, friends, and dentists? Then emptied out each kid's room and remade it into a den or something, sanitized the family photo albums without leaving any oddly blank spaces, closed the bank accounts, and stole all the school and medical records? Good luck with that.
My biggest pet peeve with this episode was that the writers didn't think through the implications of the plot points they brought up.
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Date: 2010-02-03 05:44 am (UTC)From:Fact - it's not hard to find someone who will do anything if you put enough money in front of them
Fact - Money buys a hell of a lot of silence... and cooperation
Fact - When dealing with Super Powers anything is possible, especially when you have one who can practically make money, one who can heal anything, one who controls minds, and one who dreams the future and thus always sees it coming.
I'm not saying that it would have been easy - just possible.
Especially once you bring Arthur Petrelli on board.
I wish the show had done a better job of telling us how - and I'm still hoping that they will do that over time - but I don't believe that the fact that they didn't renders it impossible...
Still my favorite ep to date - because as I said, best Angela ep to date.
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Date: 2010-02-03 06:04 am (UTC)From:Yes I am, because that's how every person they encounter is going to view them. The average person doesn't know Specials exist.
Fact - it's not hard to find someone who will do anything if you put enough money in front of them
True, but then we get back to the problem of where that money was supposed to come from.
Fact - Money buys a hell of a lot of silence... and cooperation
Not when you're 16. If a 16-year-old, especially one as unassuming as Bob, approached a career criminal with gold to sell, either in one large lump or in regular small quantities, the only thing the criminal is going to want to do is threaten the kid to find where his gold supply is coming from to cut out the middleman. Because the career criminal isn't going to know that Bob has superpowers. And money can buy a lot of things, but loyalty isn't traditionally one of them.
Fact - When dealing with Super Powers anything is possible
Not anything. There are limits to those powers and how they can be used in society without drawing unwanted attention.
I wish the show had done a better job of telling us how
Yes! That right there was my issue. I want to know how they pulled it off, because the odds were totally against them, at least until the 1970's. That's when the gold ban was lifted, and Bob would have been in his mid-twenties. He could have made gold bricks literally out of bricks then without raising suspicions.
Still my favorite ep to date - because as I said, best Angela ep to date.
Still hate it like burning because the writers didn't think their ideas through.
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Date: 2010-02-03 06:33 am (UTC)From:Yes, but you're also limiting your concepts on how this might have been done to those available to the average human - which obviously these kids were not.
True, but then we get back to the problem of where that money was supposed to come from.
I'm thinking King Midas (Aka Bob)
Not when you're 16. If a 16-year-old, especially one as unassuming as Bob, approached a career criminal with gold to sell, either in one large lump or in regular small quantities, the only thing the criminal is going to want to do is threaten the kid to find where his gold supply is coming from to cut out the middleman. Because the career criminal isn't going to know that Bob has superpowers. And money can buy a lot of things, but loyalty isn't traditionally one of them.
And what's to stop Charles from creating the illusion of a bad ass adult? Or who's to say if he did try to threaten them they didn't fight back? I'd put one super powered kid (much less 4) up against a non super adult any day.
Not anything. There are limits to those powers and how they can be used in society without drawing unwanted attention.
Actually those can be overcome with good old strategy - which Angela and Daniel have both proven to be masters of. You can do almost anything and get away with it if you know how - even in public. You would be amazed at the things I have gotten away with in the middle of hundreds of people.
I wish the show had done a better job of telling us how
Yes! That right there was my issue. I want to know how they pulled it off, because the odds were totally against them, at least until the 1970's. That's when the gold ban was lifted, and Bob would have been in his mid-twenties. He could have made gold bricks literally out of bricks then without raising suspicions.
As my beautiful wife put it "how hard is to go to the five and dime, buy a couple hundred pairs of cheap ass on sale earrings and turn them into solid gold - producing gold jewlery?"
That then becomes very easy to sell.
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Date: 2010-02-03 07:05 am (UTC)From:No, I'm just limiting my concepts to how a bunch of 16-year-old special kids could do this without drawing unwanted attention from people who don't know powers exist, since they were (a) still minors, (b) on the run, and (c) supposed to be dead.
And what's to stop Charles from creating the illusion of a bad ass adult?
It would only be an illusion of a badass adult. The criminal they were dealing with would be a real badass adult. If they were attacked by a career criminal, only looking tough would not be helpful, and most of them don't have powers or regular human skills that would help in a fight.
Actually those can be overcome with good old strategy - which Angela and Daniel have both proven to be masters of.
Now. How brilliant at strategy were they at 16?
As my beautiful wife put it "how hard is to go to the five and dime, buy a couple hundred pairs of cheap ass on sale earrings and turn them into solid gold - producing gold jewlery?"
That then becomes very easy to sell.
Again we get back to my original argument. Even if they were $2 a pair, a couple hundred pairs of earrings would cost $400. So they would need to make money to be able to buy the things they needed to make money, unless Angela was shoplifting more than socks. And they'd have to hit every dime store in town (and several other towns too) to buy (or shoplift) enough earrings to support themselves.
But let's say for the sake of argument that they manage to acquire a metric ton of cheap earrings and turn them into gold. Where would they sell them? They're 16. No one's going to wonder where a 16-year-old got 200 pairs of solid gold earrings? They would be having to do things in dribs and drabs and be constantly moving around to new fences and sources so as not to get caught.
No, it's not impossible, but I want to know how they did it while staying ahead of truant officers and other adults who might want to know where their parents are and why they're not in school. Or did they go to school? Did they all stay together the whole time, or split up? Where did they live? Did they stay in one place, or keep moving around so as not to get caught? How did they get from a bunch of basically orphaned teens stranded in the desert to a rich and powerful secret society? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Date: 2010-02-03 07:22 am (UTC)From:As for how good they were at strategy at 16? I was dancing circles around every adult I knew by the time I was 13. I could make them do anything I wanted them to - it wasn't difficult if you knew which buttons to push.
As for moving around a lot - who says they weren't?
Hell flying first class would have been as easy as having Charles snatch 4 random passports and convincing the taker that they owned the tickets - easy as pie. They could probably get away with doing it with blank pieces of paper or less - but easier to convince four people not to get on first, so you have the empty seats.
As for fights and not being equipped? Do you remember what Daphne told Hiro about trying to catch a Precog? Which is what Angela is... so they have their early warning system, then they have a boy who can heal any damage they might sustain - as they sustain it... a definite advantage over the other side, add to that a boy who can make them beat the hell out of each other - or themselves if he wants to and a boy who can turn you into gold by touching you (I'm fairly certain that would kill most people.) and I'd say they are more then equipped for a fight.
I'm with you - I want to know too, mostly because I prefer the founders and Claire to the rest of the cast, so the more time we spend on the company - the happier I am.
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Date: 2010-02-03 11:45 pm (UTC)From:I think the basic problem is that you and your wife are very creative, while I'm a pragmatist with 2 left brains. Where you only see endless possibilities, I only see endless practical roadblocks.
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Date: 2010-02-04 01:39 am (UTC)From:I'm blessed in being very good with both halves of my brain.
I was born right brain dominant - and I have always been very creative... my creative writing teachers loved me.
I was diagnosed with a mental illness or two and in order to control them without medication I had to come into control of the left side of my brain - that allowed me to learn to wield logic against the illness. The only truly effective non medicated answer for Bipolar disorder... it allows me to step back and tell myself that I'm not really depressed and then back it up with facts. It doesn't stop the depression, but it allows me to choose a response, instead of the illnesses choosing for me.
Thus I learned to master both halves of my brain.
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Date: 2010-02-04 04:06 am (UTC)From: